Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 478
Thursday, September 19th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: The Continuum
Re: Upcoming Shows
Re: BeckleyCon
Re: Oechsler
Re: Sheldon's Ufo Conspiracy Novel
Re: Beckleycon
Re: Confirmation
UFO Conference in Orlando
Hudson Valley UFO
Re: How Old Are The 'grey
Upcoming Shows
Weekly World News
HOW ABOUT THIS ONE?
Re: UFO Seminar
Re: Crop Circles
Re: BeckleyCon
Ron Reagan Show 9/12/91
Ron Reagan 9/13/91
Project VISIT and rumours?
Dave And Doug On Hoaxes
Ron Reagan Show
Exasperated over HV
Project Visit And Rumours?
Confirmation
Leslie Watkins/alternative Iii
Re: Dave And Doug's Crop Circle Hoax
Op Circle Rmn #3
Project Visit And Rumours?
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From: Jim.Graham@f13.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Graham)
Subject: Re: The Continuum
Date: 18 Sep 91 02:39:42 GMT
In a message sent 17:55: 15 Sep 91, Michael Corbin wrote to All:
MC> After a small delay, the premier issue of Continuum,
MC> ParaNet's official
MC> bi-monthly news magazine is ready to go to press. This
MC> is a final call for
MC> you to get a free first issue, by sending your name and
MC> mailing address via
MC> this network or email to mcorbin@scicom.alphacdc.com.
Sure Mike. I'll bite!
Jim Graham
4055 East Farr Rd.
Bloomington, Indiana 47408
Thanks,
Jim
)
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From: Danny.Brandenburg@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Danny Brandenburg)
Subject: Re: Upcoming Shows
Date: 16 Sep 91 04:56:35 GMT
I only caught part two of the Ron Reagan special. It was a pretty good
program. Was it me or did ol' Ron seem to be in slight favor of the UFO
community? It looked as if he would not recognize what Phil had to say.
Danny Brandenburg
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: BeckleyCon
Date: 18 Sep 91 03:54:00 GMT
Hi Vlad,
Thanks for the good chuckle!! You asked how I knew that man was
"channeling Nikola Tesla in Hungarian." Well, actually I didn't. I
thought it was perhaps Polish. At the break I ran off to call my
husband who is an engineer (and who wouldn't be caught dead at a
BeckleyCon) and innocently asked him if Tesla was Polish or just what.
He said he thought Tesla was Hungaria, so that's why I said that.
But, heck, Vlad, who are we to question Tesla coming thru in
"channeling" in whatever accent!? It's all divine, ain't it?
Thanks for the info and the chuckle!
Linda
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Oechsler
Date: 18 Sep 91 03:56:00 GMT
Hi Keith.
Will get out the info to you on Big Bob O. in a few days. I'm running
around in circles this week (and not crop circles, either).
Regards,
Linda
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Sheldon's Ufo Conspiracy Novel
Date: 18 Sep 91 04:54:00 GMT
Hi Mike,
Yep, I bought it Sunday; it's called THE DOOMSDAY CHRONICLES. I
haven't read more than 100 pages, but so far it has been interesting.
The aliens are described as plant-like. They are disgusted at how
Earthlings continue to pollute the planet and plan to destroy it.
Some world governments know this, and are rushing to set up some Star
Wars defense weapons to counteract.
Sheldon is clever in how his spy-hero manages to track down all the
witnesses who saw the crashed saucer and the two dead aliens. One
alien is missing.
That's about how far I have gotten. I'll try to quote a passage at a
later date.
See ya,
Linda
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Beckleycon
Date: 18 Sep 91 04:56:00 GMT
Hi Tom,
We'll get to the bottom of Tesla's native language yet!
Thanks for ideas,
Linda
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From: Jim.Delton@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton)
Subject: Re: Confirmation
Date: 18 Sep 91 05:34:00 GMT
Did Maury seem upset about something??? I sense that undercurrent in
his posts.
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: UFO Conference in Orlando
Date: 16 Sep 91 04:47:02 GMT
> See what I added to Jim Speiser's remarks about the "BeckleyCon."
Sounds just wonderful. ;-)
At least you didn't have to sit through Dr. Frank Stranges too.
jbh
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Hudson Valley UFO
Date: 16 Sep 91 04:48:03 GMT
> You mean the same file I have, where he tracked them to some sort of
> military base with a secret area that he couldn't determine the function
> of? Not to mention the cattle the FDA kept there?
Yep, I think that's it. Haven't looked at it in a while.
jbh
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From: Kay.Mclaughlin@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Re: How Old Are The 'grey
Date: 11 Sep 91 03:55:00 GMT
JS>Naw, don't think so...recall that the Hill's aliens were slightly different
JS>from what we're seeing these days. I think they looked more like Mr. Potato
JS>Head, at least from the movie and the drawings I've seen. (Sorry, Don, not
JS>making an Idaho joke here...)
AHEM, Jim, well don't cha know when you have Mr. Potato Head......
YOU CAN MAKE UP YOUR OWN!
(Sorry, couldn't resist)
Regards,
Kay
+ SLMR 2.0 +
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From: Kay.Mclaughlin@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Upcoming Shows
Date: 11 Sep 91 04:04:00 GMT
JS>I have just learned that the Thursday, Sept. 12th installment of the new
JS>talk show hosted by Ron Reagan (the President's son) will feature UFOs. The
JS>guests include Phil Klass, Stan Friedman and Jacques Vallee. Its my
JS>understanding that this is quite an excellent new program, completely on the
JS>other end of the spectrum from Geraldo & Company. Now if I could only find
JS>out where and when its playing in Phoenix....
JS>Jim
JS>--- QuickBBS 2.75 Ovr (Gamma-2)
JS> * Origin: ParaNet(sm) Zeta-Reticuli Scottsdale, AZ (9:1010/100)
EXCELLENT, but what no Don Ecker!
Jim, it is on the FOX network, here (in Northern Virginia) it comes on
right after STUDS!
It is a "really good shoe", on the first couple of nights, he laid to
rest the "ron regan is gay issue", by stating that his wife would know
it by now, and the "your ronald regans son issue" by stating"my father
was elected president, not me".
An intellegently done, well moderated show from what I've seen so far.
GEE, aske and ye shall receive.
Regards,
Kay
+ SLMR 2.0 +
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From: Steve.Rose@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose)
Subject: Weekly World News
Date: 12 Sep 91 17:45:00 GMT
NC>shuttle gangplank. Now, the really good part was the inset photo, which
NC>showed exactly the same picture, but without the alien -- just a space
NC>between the first shuttle pilot and the rest. The caption under *this*
NC>photo
NC>says 'NASA re-released this crudely retouched photo to cover up the alien
NC>rescue!'
NC>Then there was another one showing the alien with George Bush in what looked
NC>like one of those stand-up cardboard cutouts you can get your picture taken
NC>with, at malls and such.
NC>Probably not the preferred discussion matter for paranet, but I found it so
NC>funny I thought I had to send it on.
On the contrary...I feel this type of outragious 'crap journalism'
should be mentioned from time to time. It reminds us how far some will
go to distort reality, and mess up real research...while
keeping the masses in the dark (and providing humor at the same time).
:-)
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From: Tyson.Mitchiner@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tyson Mitchiner)
Subject: HOW ABOUT THIS ONE?
Date: 12 Sep 91 08:15:00 GMT
PP> A newspaper said Monday the mysterious wheatfield circles in southern
PP>England that have baffled scientists for years were a hoax created by two
PP>men who have come forward to claim responsibility.
PP> The tabloid Today said Douglas Bower and David Chorley of Southampton
PP>contacted the newspaper and gave detailed information about how they planned
PP>and executed each design since the late 1970s. The newspaper said it paid no
PP>money in connection with the story.
PP> The men used four-foot planks with rope reins to flatten the wheat and
PP>produce circles, the story said. Straight lines were made using a simple
PP>wire
PP>"gunsight" on a baseball cap that allowed the men to walk while aiming at a
PP>distant object, it said.
PP> The wheat was bent down rather than broken so farmers could still harvest
PP>the crop, Today said.
Does their method bend down all the stalks without breaking a *single*
stalk? That is the mystery that I have been curious about, the
bending down of the stalks without breaking a single stalk.
I saw this story on the 11 o' clock news in Washington, D.C. The
media does not cover the other stories, but immediately accepts the
hoax story?
Since they have admitted to hoaxing those circle/pictograms, we'll
know more if they are telling the truth, if the circles/pictorgrams
continue or not. If they stop, they'll be believed. If they don't,
well.. they've got egg on their face. The media will too, but they'll
never admit it.
Tyson
* SLMR 2.0 * From an explorer.............
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From: Kay.Mclaughlin@p0.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Re: UFO Seminar
Date: 17 Sep 91 02:05:20 GMT
-=> Quoting Vladimir Godic to ALL <=-
VG> The following is a report by Keith Basterfield after attending a
VG> recent UFO seminar in Sydney, New South Wales.
VG>
Thanks for posting this review, it's good for us all to see what's going
on outside of the US.
VG> Jerry Clark talked over the two days on the U.S.A. cover up legend,
VG> from Roswell in 1947 through to the present. Jerry believes that the
VG> 80s legends are disinformation from U.S. Air Force intelligence. He
Another reason for the disinformation? Perhaps as Vallee said on the Ron Regan
Show the other night, the BIG coverup is that THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE.
Therefore better to have rumors going around that they are hiding aliens
than to admit they don't know.
Regards,
Kay
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From: Kay.Mclaughlin@p0.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Date: 17 Sep 91 02:08:24 GMT
-=> Quoting ncar!yak.boeing.com!rjp2011 to All <=-
n> The obvious thing to watch for now is any new crop circles.
Yes, but if they have already harvested (have they???) these plank guys get
a WHOLE YEAR of publicity, plenty of time to write a book. (Sheesh!)
Regards,
Kay
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From: Kay.Mclaughlin@p0.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Re: BeckleyCon
Date: 17 Sep 91 02:17:39 GMT
-=> Quoting Linda Bird to Jim Speiser <=-
LB> said he then spent 5 years floating around as a spirit once he died
LB> there on the Roswell desert, and then - poof! - he became a human.
I LOVE IT!
LB> His ditsey wife passed out copies of a hymn and insisted we all sing
LB> along with some old 90-year old Soprano. Then Harley got up and ran
LB> back and forth in front of us for a few minutes, as if to gather his
LB> wits and get organized. He gave us some personal background. Then he
LB> drew a picture of the Hollow Earth and explained it in faltering words
LB> When asked "Where does the magma come from?" - Harley stammered and
LB> hemmed and finally said, "From your Mind!!" (I am NOT kidding!) Then
OH Man! Now THAT's entertainment! Why don't we have these things where
I live! I live ouside of the beltway! We only seem to have CISCOP
conferences in D.C. (Strains of Ed Ames singing the Windmills of your mind..)
Regards,
Kay
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From: Kay.Mclaughlin@p0.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Ron Reagan Show 9/12/91
Date: 17 Sep 91 02:40:55 GMT
Comments on the Ron Reagan Show 9/12/91
I had the feeling that Ron tried to fit in too many guests for a one
hour show. I thought that the little anonymous clips after each commercial
took up time where people could be talking. If they showed the clips with
an explanation it would have been better. Otherwise I thought Ron showed
a genuine interest in the subject, he DID devote TWO shows to it.
He treated everyone fairly without a "these guys are wacko attitude,
but did have a sense of humor.
I really enjoyed seeing Vallee, he is so calm and makes so much sense IMHO.
He made a few good statements such as: "I am convinced that there is a real,
physical, UFO phenomenon, and I think, (turning to Klass) I could not prove
it to the National Academy of Science, Phil...But I believe that it is a
manifestation of a form of conciousness that's not human conciousness.
That does not mean necessarily that we are being visited by anything green
from another planet, there could be other possibilities. It's an opportunity
to do some good science, that's what good science is all about."
Later in the show he said: "I think that the BIG secret in Washington
may be that the Government has no idea what these things are. The
government has a lot of data, but that does not not mean that they
have any information. I think it is a crime that this data is not
released to the scientific community. I think we could have a
higher level of debate."
And also: "I don't understand why Phil is so upset about another
mystery, we don't understand the Sun, we don't understand the
immune system, all kinds of other things."
When an audience member asked why if there is so much evidence,
they are still called unidentified, Valle said: "We keep using loose
terms like belief and evidence. Science is not about belief, and
evidence is not somthing we have. We have a lot of interesting
and information, the science has never been done. There are a few
individuals who have spent their spare time and their own money...
trying to investigate those cases all over the world. I think
we have a good case, somthing should be pursued, but we have not
done the science, and until the science is done we are not going to
have the answers."
Another segment that I enjoyed was one where Ron said "People talk
about government coverups all the time, and it's pretty easy to,
the CIA's behind everything, and we know that now."
He then directed a question to Phil Klass "How credible are these reports?"
Whereupon Phil whipped out a Mufon Journal and paraphrased from a
reprint of a TOP SECRET Air Force and Navy Intellegence document dated
Dec. 10, 1948 titled [Analysis of Flying Object Incidents in the US],
which said that "UFO's were probabally spy vehicles developed by
German Scientists captured by Russians"
Friedman then jumped in to explain about security clearances, the
need to know, and compartmentalization of projects. Then Klass
said "The point is, if there were crashed UFO's at Roswell someone
forgot to tell the TOP Air Force, and Navy Intellegence officers".
Ron Said "If there was a government conspiracy wouldn't they publish
something like this to cover up the facts?"
To which Klass replied "To withhold the facts from the PRESIDENT
OF THE UNITED STATES?!"
Ron quipped "It's happened before!"
Klass went on "To withhold the facts from the Defense Department who's
job it is to defend the country?"
Ron asked, "But couldn't this be misinformation?
My favorite part of the show was toward the end when an audience member
said "Phil Klass, your time has come to an end, why don't you retire,
and GO FISHING! We are in a new era, UFO's are here, and they are
gonna stay here. They are not going away. GO FISHING!
It was pretty good.
Regards,
Kay
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From: Kay.Mclaughlin@p0.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Ron Reagan 9/13/91
Date: 17 Sep 91 02:44:38 GMT
Comments on Ron Regan Show 9/13/91
Again, I thought Ron treated the contactees (Shari Levy, Athena Demetrios)
fairly.
I guess that this segment was filmed before the guys with the planks said
they were responsible for the Crop Circles, because it wasn't mentioned.
I was a little disapointed that they didn't have the film that Eric
Beckjord spoke about. Out of all of the guests, Ron seemed to give Eric
the hardest time. UFOS Good! Bigfoot Bad! (But wasn't he a good
moderator, when the conversation wandered off topic!)
I thought Klass was a little silly accusing the contactees of "Dancing
with the Devil". Maybe he's changing hats from Skeptic to Comic Relief.
I mean, I may not necessarily believe someones story, but it's just not
fair to ridicule someone if they truly believe what they are saying.
I liked the first night better, and wished they had had two hours of the
first guests, but I think Ron wanted to show how diverse the topic is.
Regards,
Kay
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From: EBay.Sun.COM!Michael.Miller
Subject: Project VISIT and rumours?
Date: 18 Sep 91 17:36:09 GMT
From: Michael.Miller@EBay.Sun.COM (Michael Miller - Rev. Admin.)
Alright, if it is the intention of John Burke and Kurt Lochner to piss me
off, you did a good job.
I posted an inquiry based on information I heard around +10 years ago. I
was open and honest about everything I wrote in my postings. I openly asked
if anyone had further information or knew of anything about VISIT to please
post the information. I even answered honestly a list of questions someone
posted on the subject.
I have recently been trying to track down the NASA official who was part of
that project to get more information from him about it.
Yet, it seems that anyone trying to post an inquiry and to open a discussion
to get more information on this alias is subjected to being told his
information is not true and that they are deliberately trying to start some
rumors.
With these accusations on your postings and you have the audacity to say
I am starting rumors? If anything, it is individuals like you who want
to start rumors and the worst kind... those that try to defame and mock
another person's sincere search for information.
If this is the type of rude and asinine behavior anyone can expect from
this alias, then I am on the wrong alias.
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Dave And Doug On Hoaxes
Date: 18 Sep 91 23:07:00 GMT
Hello, Robert
That was certainly interesting material you mentioned in your post
about a ministerial meeting in London concerning crop circles. You
say this assembly met about a year ago? Can you supply any
references to corroborate this other than stating "the details were
passed on by someone who attended the meeting." You have to admit
that's rather vague and difficult to verify.
Now, concerning the essence of your post, namely the Bower and
Chorley hoax story. How can you possibly state that what happened
is part of a disinformation campaign? If you can not state who or
what is behind this campaign, your conclusion that it *is* one is
highly speculative.
Furthermore, you refer to this entire incident as a carefully laid
"trap" to discredit Delgado. Let's get real Robert, no one held a
gun to his head forcing him to make the determination that the
formation was 'authentic'. In fact, he was even *told* by the paper
and the farmer that it was a hoax! Yet, the 'expert' Delgado,
claimed that the formation *was* "the genuine article, of the sort
no human could have made".
The real question here as I see it is not how many circles Bower
and Chorley have hoaxed. It doesn't matter if it was 2,000 or 1.
What we *really* should be asking ourselves is how many circles
proclaimed to be bona fide by Delgado and Andrews, were in
actuality, man made.
Regards
-= Sheldon =- Chicago, IL USA
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Ron Reagan Show
Date: 18 Sep 91 23:09:00 GMT
In a message to Jim Speiser <14-Sept-91> Don Allen wrote re: The
Ron Reagan Show telecast 13-Sept-91:
DA> What _bothers_ me though is the fellow (whatzisname..the "loch
DA> ness" guy) specifically mentioned that he had brought the
DA> *video* of the object over the crop circles..this was the
DA> _same_ video that was shown at the Chicago MUFON symposium a
DA> few months back..
DA> Reagan's response was "we might have lost it"...
DA> Ha! Right...sure :-)
Hello, Don
Actually, this incident is not as mysterious as one might initially
believe, once all the facts are known. As I have posted here
before, the tape that Colin Andrews showed in Chicago was not his
property. He had "borrowed"(note euphemism) it from the owner and
*copyright holder* over a year ago, who has had his lawyers trying
to get it back ever since! The tape never should have been shown in
Chicago. Apparently, the Fox network, in its' infinite wisdom,
decided they would be leaving themselves wide open for a lawsuit if
they broadcast the tape.
Now, as an update to the Chicago incident let me add this. As you
probably know, MUFON is selling video tapes of the entire
symposium, *including* the "soon to be famous" borrowed tape. Guess
what happened, Don? The copyright holder has filed a lawsuit
against MUFON, charging them with *selling* his tape without
authorization, and asking for damages and restitution equivalent to
65% of all gross MUFON tape sales!
I sincerely believe that MUFON was unaware of the circumstances at
conference time, but once they had knowledge of the situation, that
segment of tape should have been edited out. Can you believe
they're *still* selling the tapes with the "disc" segment intact?
I'll bet you know why! If MUFON edited out the copyright piece, I
can guaranty you we'd all be screaming *COVER-UP* as loud as hell!
Sorry, Don... but there's no cover-up here. The poor chap back in
England is just trying to cut himself a business deal.
Unfortunately, he's no match for the team of Andrews and Delgado.
BTW, the tape is well worth viewing, _if_ you can find a legal
copy!
Take care,
Sheldon
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From: well!gmz
Subject: Exasperated over HV
Date: 19 Sep 91 02:26:17 GMT
From: well!gmz@apple.com (Gerry Zeitlin)
Folks, I just have to throw in my two cents' worth on this Hudson
Valley discussion. I can't believe this silly talk about
152s/182s has gone on for so long.
First of all, a 152's overhead lighting consists of a small
'flood' with a red filter that illuminates the instrument panel.
It has two little slots which can be opened to throw a tiny beam
of white light onto the pilot's and/or passenger's lap area for
the purpose of illuminating charts. That's it. A 182, as I
recall, has much the same arrangement, but there is additional
panel lighting. In no case could either of these airplanes'
interior lighting create a light which could be seen from further
away than perhaps right outside the window.
And speaking of windows, I ask you, what the hell does it matter
how many windows the airplane has? Any ten-year-old could tell
you that adding a window to the airplane will not make another
light appear. I mean, is everyone in this discussion, including
those pilots at that flying club, a total blithering idiot?
As long as airplane types are concerned, one of these experts at
identifying planes could at least have suggested one which has
automobile-style dome lighting. A Mooney, for example.
But I don't for a moment wish to support the notion that that
light pattern was created by aircraft interior lighting.
I saw that video myself somewhere - I don't recall where - and
from what I recall of it, all you could say about it was that the
lights were most likely connected by some rigid structure.
Period.
There is so little to go on in that video that you could have
predicted that any report of an explanation (note the spelling of
that word) would have been nothing more than a pure guess
selected from the options open to the mindset of the person
guessing. It doesn't matter if the guy is the Director of JPL,
ok? In fact, that would only serve to close down the options
available to the guy, if you know what I mean.
---------------------------------------------------------
gerry zeitlin gmz@well.sf.ca.us
---------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Project Visit And Rumours?
Date: 19 Sep 91 07:15:00 GMT
Michael Miller writes:
>
> Alright, if it is the intention of John Burke and Kurt
> Lochner to piss me
> off, you did a good job.
No, it wasn't.
> I posted an inquiry based on information I heard around
> +10 years ago. I
> was open and honest about everything I wrote in my
> postings. I openly asked
> if anyone had further information or knew of anything about
> VISIT to please
> post the information. I even answered honestly a list of
> questions someone
> posted on the subject.
I agree.
> * * *
> Yet, it seems that anyone trying to post an inquiry and to
> open a discussion
> to get more information on this alias is subjected to being
> told his
> information is not true and that they are deliberately
> trying to start some
> rumors.
I never accused you (nor anyone else) of deliberately trying to
start rumors. In fact, I never mentioned your name (nor your
Internet address) in my post.
> With these accusations on your postings and you have the
> audacity to say
> I am starting rumors?
Again: no accusations, no audacity, nor no mention of your name
appeared in my post. If you can find anything like that, quote
it and post it. Otherwise try to resist the temptation to fly
off with an _ad hominem_ attack like:
>If anything, it is individuals like
> you who want
> to start rumors and the worst kind... those that try to
> defame and mock
> another person's sincere search for information.
>
> If this is the type of rude and asinine behavior anyone can
> expect from
> this alias, then I am on the wrong alias.
If you percieve my posting as "rude and asinine" then you may
actually prefer another alias to this one. Might I suggest: the
FidoNet UFO echo?
Stay cool!
-- John
--
John Burke - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Confirmation
Date: 18 Sep 91 15:36:00 GMT
> Did Maury seem upset about something??? I sense that undercurrent in
> his posts.
Yes, I caught a tinge of hostility myself. I dunno, maybe I was a little
high-handed. I certainly don't want to alienate him at this point.
Jim
--
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INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Leslie Watkins/alternative Iii
Date: 18 Sep 91 15:48:00 GMT
> BTW, I have an old atlathat doesn't show a town with a name like Ammon
> on Idaho's map. Can you give me an idea where to look or have I
> misunderstood the nam
> Thanks, again, for all your help!
> ==Peggy==
Ammon is approximately 4 miles SE of Idaho Falls. Another town that was
mentioned is Ucon, approximately 8 mi NE of IF.
Jim
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Re: Dave And Doug's Crop Circle Hoax
Date: 17 Sep 91 16:40:00 GMT
* Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors"
* Originally from Bob Garwood
* Originally dated 09-16-91 12:00
From: bgarwood@sngldsh.cv.nrao.edu (Bob Garwood )
Date: 16 Sep 91 03:37:11 GMT
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
Message-ID: Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
In article <1991Sep11.201717.25579@gtephx.UUCP> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford)
writes:
Did ever occur to _any_ of you skeptics that D&D claimed to
have put up a hoax because they just can't accept any other
explanation? NOT that I believe, or ever did believe, that
the circles were evidence of anything.
Its just that a lot of you have been blasting "psi believers"
because "we believe what we want to believe."
I am just wondering if any skeptics have given any thought
to the possibility that the hoax is a hoax?
----
Actually, it was the first thing that occured to me before I read
the article. However:
(1) They were observed making one crop "circle" (although, like most of
these features in the crops, it wasn't a simple circle - is there a
better word?).
(2) Production of this circle was sufficiently fast to allow for it
to have been easily produced in one evening by a very small number
of people (2).
(3) This circle clearly fooled someone known as a leading expert on
the circles.
There are several explanations for the formation of these features:
(1) hoax, i.e. humans did it
(2) natural/meteorological - i.e. humans didn't do it but there's no need
to go beyond established science to explain them
(although we will allow that perhaps the natural explanation may turn
out to be something theoreticians previously thought impossible)
(3) UFO or other explanation - not of this earth or science could
never explain this one (perhaps this should be 2 sepearate classes,
UFOS/extraterrestrials that if we only understood as much as they did
we'ld view it as a natural phenomenon and PSI explanations)
Of these 3 explanations:
(1) has been shown to be a valid explanation in one case. This illustrates
that it is possible to fool the experts.
(2) I have heard mostly, I believe, anecdotal evidence that some
weather/winds may produce circular patches in crops. Clearly,
a simple meteoroligical explanation can not explain the extremely
complex patterns observed. Therefore, for the bulk of these
patterns, explanation (1) is preffered over explanation (2).
A more complex explanation is necessesary plus either direct
observation of a patter forming not via (1) or proof that a pattern
could not have been formed via (1) [and, given that experts stated
that the one case of a hoax could not have been a hoax, it will
be more difficult to prove that other patterns could not be hoaxed].
(3) In order for this to be taken seriously at all, (1) some UFOS or
some such weirdness not identified as natural are observed forming
a pattern, or (2) similar to what I said above, proof that a
pattern could not have been formed by humans.
Clearly, the hoax hypothesis is by far the leading hypothesis to explain
these crop patterns. (2) is a distant second, but only for the very simple
patters and (3) is extremely unlikely.
This ranking of explanations may change but it is clearly the current
ranking.
Bob Garwood, National Radio Astronomy Observatory
bgarwood@nrao.edu
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Op Circle Rmn #3
Date: 19 Sep 91 20:13:00 GMT
> Kit McCray and Tere Kristovich will show slides of crop circles and
> present information from their recent trip to England in a Sept. 21
> lecture at Colorado School of Mines in Golden, beginning at 7 p.m.
> Cost is $8, $6 for students. To order tickets, call 273-3234. The
> pair also will speak at the Divine Science Church, East 14th Avenue
> and Williams Street, on Sept. 27, and at the Events Center in
> Boulder on Sept. 28.
> -30-
Thank you for uploading those articles Peggy. I just met with Tere and Kit
and found them to be most interesting. They have also agreed to a cooperative
effort with us in the future. I will be uploading a report on this meeting
with them and the results of their recent trip to the UK. They have many
interesting things and photographs.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Project Visit And Rumours?
Date: 19 Sep 91 20:19:00 GMT
> From: Michael.Miller@EBay.Sun.COM (Michael Miller - Rev. Admin.)
Mike,
I am sorry that you have taken offense here. I do not believe that any was
intended. As I told you, I have been looking into the project, and have found
that there is some information forthcoming regarding it. I am planning on
posting whatever information comes my way. In the meantime, please accept my
apology for any offense. It is the intention of this network to offer a forum
where everyone can share their ideas and opinions without undue criticism.
However, as we tell everyone, please come prepared to defend your position as
debate is what this forum is all about.
Michael Corbin
Director
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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