From LISTSERV@PSUVM.PSU.EDU Mon Mar 6 08:20:59 1995
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 14:52:08 -0500
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Subject: ALTUFO-L Digest - 5 Mar 1995 - Special issue
There are 16 messages totalling 1032 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Roswell updateIII
2. Bob Lazar
3. What causes electrical devices to shut down around a UFO? (2)
4. FBI X-Files.. where?
5. !!!!!!!!!!HELP ME OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6. Phobos 2 questions (2)
7. MJ-12 Document
8. End of the Aurora Myth
9. Coincidental deaths of UK weapons scientists
10. Fate of Soviet Mars Probes 1990 (2)
11. Triangle UFO Sighted near Fairfield, CA ^Repost^
12. aryans
13. Alternative propulsion II
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 14:51:49 -0500
From: Robert Mitchell
Subject: Roswell updateIII
Here's the latest on the Roswell film/autopsy report part 3. I would like to
give special thanks to the International UFO Congress & Film Festival for
there help in making this information available. I'm sorry, I'm not at
liberty to give the name of the individual who faxed us this information.
Hopefully he will allow us to use his name in the future. I received this fax
on 02-28-95 from England via are friends at the International UFO Congress in
Oakland Ca. No changes have been made
some
of this footage".
That's it, the rest of the fax is of a personal nature and is considered
confidential.
... Not tonight, dear. I have a modem.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 14:51:50 -0500
From: John Maylone
Subject: Re: Bob Lazar
-=> Quoting Gufon@ix.netcom.com to All <=-
Gu> Hello,
Gu> My name is Gene Huff and I am new to the net. I'm a close friend and
Gu> business partner of Bob Lazar. I wrote and co-produced the Lazar Tape
Gu> with him. I'm available to answer some questions and clear up many of
Gu> the wives tales and folk lore reagarding his story. All of us are
Gu> collectively trying to understand the big picture and Lazar's story is
Gu> a major key. I don't want you to dismiss it because you've been
Gu> misinformed by people who don't know what they're talking about. I'm
Gu> ready if you are! You can reach me at Gufon@ix.netcom.com
Gu> -!- News headers follow ---
Gu> From: Gufon@ix.netcom.com (Eugene Huff)
Gu> Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo
Gu> Subject: Bob Lazar
Gu> Date: 25 Feb 1995 20:38:14 GMT
Hello Gene,
And thanks for coming "out of the closet". The are a couple of
postings on the 'net that offer a timeline of a very mundane
existence for Bob Lazar. These also cite sources for supporting
documentation. Have you seen those? Do you have a ready rebuttal?
I'm trying to keep my mind open on Bob's case, but the argument against
him appears to be strong (although I've not checked the sources myself.
It would be nice to see what you and Bob have to say regarding these
postings.
I'm all ears, and I don't mean Ferengi.
Regards,
John
... I'm into gravity, and its opposite, comedy.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 16:33:19 GMT
From: Eric Stoltman
Subject: Re: What causes electrical devices to shut down around a UFO?
In <3j95e3$14p4@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> WUCA27A@prodigy.com (Al
Vargas) writes:
I used to have an avid interest in UFO's... unfortunately fringe types
like those below have made it less enjoyable and have helped to bring
increased speculation by the public upon objective, educated individuals
with a sincere and scientific based interest in UFO's.
The Road Warrior
>
>The forces that dictate flow of electrical current and what we call
>electricity are no more than the constant and common clay from which
the
>entire universe is carved. All of the forces that we are able to see
and
>experience around us are the result of the physical manifestations that
>we as human beings, of biogenic origin, are able to understand.
> There is a common field from which all of the forces that we
>describe in different ways, manifest themselves. In several more
>decades, our own scientists will begin to have a grasp of the basics of
>these concepts themselves and will begin to bring us within the
forefront
>of the scientific knowledge that will be necessary to achieve the level
>of knowledge that we seek. Unfortunately, the basics of this
knowledge
>are being hindered by the temporary slowing down of very important
>projects such as the super conducting super collider, previously slated
>for the state of Texas. This will cause the slow down and much later
>discovery (publically) of many of the important scientific advances to
>come.
> Sorry...I got off the subject. Electricity as we call it travels
>through the sub-matrix that we call space and is allowed by a
distortion
>of the Matrix of the Space-Time continuum itself. This continuum can
be
>distorted at a much larger level and in order for deep space travel to
>occur must be and is a reality. The fields which are necessary for
>others to visit us, must be of sufficient intensity and variatio
deimos@mu.sans.vuw.ac.nz )
>
>
Glad I could be of help. Say, what do they smoke out there in New
Zealand, anyway?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 12:55:36 -0500
From: Uriel
Subject: !!!!!!!!!!HELP ME OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In [(INT) ALT.PARANET.UFO] on <23 Feb 95 01:31>, Teack wrote to All:
Te> i am requesting for someone to update me
Te> on some new ufo sites i already have
Te> a lot of major ones yet all help will be
Te> appreciated.
Teack, the following is an abduction experienced by Winifred Barton at the
Lester B Pearson Peace Park, at Actinolite, Ontario:
Sept 26, 1973 - The story of my abduction - Winifred G. Barton.
Suddenly the whole park was enveloped in a heavy silver mist.
Some of the people were still in their cabins - I was up in the
park. There was a lighter area in the middle of the mist near the
peace tower. In it you could see the outline of a space ship -
circular and several stories high.
The people seemed to walk from coagulated mist and be of exactly
the same substance as the vehicle ... as if they were all part of
the same thing and could form so they looked humanoid but covered
in a silver stocking or evaporate back into the mist.
A lot of thought exchange seemed to be going on though at the time
I could not absorb it. But I remembered snatches - and eventually
regained total memory of the whole abduction experience.
Two of these beings walked me to a central foyer. As we passed I
saw a number of people who were staying at the camp. There was Lee
Martin from Nashville Tenn. Stanley Moore and his wife Melba of
Sandy Springs, Md. Roger Catterall and Marcel Lafleur of Toronto,
Howard Haimovitch of Hull, PQ. Pierre Dumas of Buckingham, PQ.,
Julian Grandbois of Geneva, Europe. Scott Rice of Oregon, Colleen
Finn and Norma Hunt of Ottawa. Inez Smith of Pembroke - now
deceased.
They were acting quiet but Marcel Lafleur began screaming and
trying to run away. I don't know where the rest went to as there
seemed many rooms - but I ended up in a large circular room - a
translucent aqua colour - with a central round gadget that looked
like an eye. There was only one person - a human man, in the room
with whom I had a slight acquaintance. He was wearing mechanics
overalls which he took off when I came into the room.
Something was being communicated - but it seemed to come straight
out of the walls of the room without any obvious source. I spent
the next several days mainly lying in my cabin trying to figure out
what had happened and what I knew... and so did the others. Then it
was time to leave - and still in a state of mental digestion we
went away to our regular homes and affairs.
But some germ seemed to have been set in my mind that kept
surfacing and I could piece together what they had said. It is as
we had each been given a task to do that had a gift for the human
race at the end of it.
This concept was confirmed over the years as the UFO club members
met and became organized especially on a global basis with
abductees from other lands. David Hamel's gift was the blueprint of
a space craft which he successfully launched before many witnesses
in Maple Ridge BC, in 1976. My gift was the Cosmic Cube which can
change magnetic fields, and which made a successful spacecraft
RENDEZVOUS on its test run on August 5, 1989.
After a while, the room sort of revved up; and before leaving I had
an overwhelming sense of rapture - that everything in the Universe
was under control and infinitude was an ongoing adventure. From
then on my whole mind took on a scale of values and a sense of
enormity. I later came to understand this was making a
reconnection with the Unified Field Force that so many scientists
are trying to discover. It is an experience not something you can
analyse.
Its lik
unknown
object before it could emense on it's objective.
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 14:51:56 -0500
From: Steven Kaeser
Subject: Re: MJ-12 Document
In article <3j3kja$7ba$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com> Michael A. Melton,
M.S. <73531.211@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>From: Michael A. Melton, M.S. <73531.211@CompuServe.COM>
>Subject: Re: MJ-12 Document
>Date: 2 Mar 1995 05:20:40 GMT
>Has anyone considered the possibility that a "signature stamp"
>was used on several documents, and this is why the signatures
>look "copied"? Instead of "debunking MJ-12, consider that
>possibility. After all, let no stone be left unturned in the
>search for the truth.
>Sincerely,
>Mike
Not the mention the practice of staffers signing memos and letters for
officials on a regular basis. This is never done on "official" documents, but
the schedules of officials are often so hectic that the signature you get on
your letter from your Congressman may indeed be that of the secretary. When I
worked in a Member office we used to hold lunchtime contests to see who could
generate the best signature. I should note that Members were fully aware of
the documents that carried their signature, but with the schedule they often
are forced to keep, Members learn quickly that some minor tasks must be
delegated.
BTW, a signature stamp would not appear to be "copied" on a copy of the
document. Since we only have prints from film of the document in question,
that would be hard to prove. A signature stamp, OTOH, would be a duplicate of
the original and would tend to not look like a copy.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 13:53:49 GMT
From: Dean Adams
Subject: Re: Phobos 2 questions
In article <3j6t62$3t7@gateway.ecn.com> psion@gateway.ecn.com (Sue King)
writes:
> I was wondering what the final word on the Russian Phobos 2 mission was?
Yes, operator error.
>know they lost contact with it and that it may have been hit by something
>that caused it to spin? Was anything further determined about it?
It was "hit" by a faulty command signal, which caused it
to go out of control and lose contact with earth.
> What about those last photos it took? Was the source of
> the "shadow" ever determined?
Data dropouts, more than likely.
>WAS there another unreleased photo that showed "something else" between
>Phobos 2 and Mars?
nope.
> Also, is the moon Phobos still in a circular orbit (as opposed to ellipse?)
I'm sure its still in the same orbit it has been in for a while. :>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 13:49:54 GMT
From: Dean Adams
Subject: Re: End of the Aurora Myth
In article <1995Mar3.145334.17095@leeds.ac.uk> men5sr@sun.leeds.ac.uk writes:
>Dean Adams - do you believe in Aurora (as an SR-71 followup craft capable
>of huge speeds) or not ?
I guess that depends on what you mean by "huge speeds". I certainly
feel that with the retiring of the SR-71s, the existance of a follow-on
program could almost be taken for granted. The official explanation
that the SR was "replaced by satellites" is as worthless as the paper
it was written on... The SR-71 had co-existed with satellite based
recon systems for virtually its entire operational history.
>I ask as you seem to be knowledgable on the subject yet as far
> as I know have never committed yourself to an opinion.
Where have you been? I've been giving "opinions" on this subject for years.
One "best guess" scenario is that some sort of high-Mach (4-6) prototype
may have been built and tested, but was eventually canceled a few years ago.
The next step was likely the Tier 3 large stealthy UAV program, but then of
course that program was canceled as well...
>
Sysop's Note: The person being interviewed here wishes to withhold
: the last names of the witnesses. I have been acquainted with "David"
: for almost two years. He has told me that he is a pilot and that he
: has had at least six UFO sightings.
: ***
: 01/27/94
: MC = Mike Coyle
: DJ = David
:
: MC: Why did you go to the area of the sighting?
: DJ: OK, well I was visiting with a friend which I try to do
: periodically. He has seen some bizarre things out there. So
: we happened to be going around looking at the sky. Actually
: talking at that time about what he had been seeing recently.
: MC: You were walking where?
: DJ: He's on a farm, his place, right next to the windmill farm.
: It's real close to Bird's Landing (CA). Maybe a mile or so
: away, in the Fairfield area.
: MC: How far is that from the edge of Travis Air Force Base?
: DJ: Oh I'd probably say fifteen, twenty miles at the most.
: MC: So your friend has been seeing strange things flying over his
: house?
: DJ: He has seen some really big things hovering over his house and
: strange things in the back of his place.
: MC: How does your friend know you?
: DJ: I have known him through a mutual friend for several years.
: MC: Your interest in each other was originally not about UFOs? You
: just knew him and as time went by he had these experiences of
: with things flying over his house?
: DJ: What's right.
: MC: And then he told you about it? So you decided to go out and
: see if you could actually see one?
: DJ: Yes, and I wish I had my camera with me.
: MC: Why didn't you have a camera with you?
: DJ: I wasn't really expecting to see anything there. I have brought
: cameras there before but we never saw anything when I did.
: MC: So you have actually gone out there before to try to see these
: objects and seen nothing?
: DJ: Yeah, he told me about this stuff, and I said, "God I'd love to
: get a picture." I said, "Why didn't you get a picture? You've
: been out there so long?"
: MC: How many times have you gone out there to look around?
: DJ: Maybe five or six.
: MC: So then you finally saw one? What was the day, date and time of
: this sighting?
:
: DJ: In the evening, maybe around eight or nine, after dark. It was
: about two months ago. I can't recall the exact day. Chilly,
: clear, a slight bit of fog, it was almost like, in fact he had
: mentioned this before, he had seen a kind of fog come up around
: there where they where doing some of their stuff back there. He
: was of the opinion they there putting out a fog field to make
: it hard to see.
: MC: So you were in his house and you decided to go walk around his
: property?
: DJ: Yeah, we were inside and decided to go out and walk around
: because he's got a lot of animals. Then we saw something come
: by and it was stranger than most planes would be because it
: had so many lights on the front. At first I just looked at the
: lights because they there so bright. They were kind of amber
: colored, more of a whitish amber and there was a whole row at
: a "V" angle.
: MC: When you first spotted it what direction where you looking?
: DJ: I was looking over towards Travis Air Force Base area from
: Birds Landing, so I guess that would be east.
: MC: In what direction was the object moving?
: DJ: It was moving from south to north.
: MC: Was it coming right at you or
MC: OK, so, you say it was traveling south to north and as the
: object got over Travis it hovered?
: DJ: Well more over, actually it was behind, a hill when it started
: hovering but what seemed to be on the other side of the hill,
: was probably some more of those windmills, or least it was
: nearby. It certainly was directly adjacent to those windmills.
: MC: And then what happened? Did it start to land?
: DJ: Actually, it went over a couple of times before it landed. It
: just flew over and banked and turned around the other
: direction. I think it even went behind the hill so we
: couldn't see it for awhile. The first time I saw it I don't
: think it landed or even completely stopped. It just slowed
: down and banked in a extreme bank and that's when a could see
: there were three, sort of glowing, round openings at the bottom.
: I would guess they were some sort of propulsion system. There
: was one at each point of the triangle. Up to this point I
: really couldn't tell what the shape was other than it was a
: triangle.
: MC: When you say triangle, what type?
: DJ: Equilateral.
: MC: So it didn't have a acute angle shape like the new stealth
: bombers or stealth fighters.
: DJ: No, it was perfectly symmetrical.
: MC: So it would make it look much more squat than one of the
: stealths, rather than swept back?
: DJ: Yes, that's right. And then after it came back the second time
: it was hovering at that point. And then it did the most bizarre
: thing. I was trying to see what the overall shape was because it
: was kind of hard to tell with those bright lights on the front.
: Then the bright lights went off. At the same time these
: incredibility bright strobes where lining the edge of the
: triangle. And what it looked like was two platforms which were
: triangular in shape. The lower one had strobes all the way
: around the triangle. Then the upper part, it was maybe ten or
: fifteen feet above the lower triangle. There was a second
: platform which was also triangular shaped and it had more
: strobes. When the strobes went on, they weren't all going on
: at the same time. The strobes on the bottom would alternate
: with the strobes on the top. So it was a real rapid, maybe
: three, four or five times a second. Flashing back and forth
: between the upper part and the lower part. It only did that
: when it was hovering, about to land.
:
: MC: And then it started to descend?
:
: DJ: Yeah, then it started to descend and descended all the way
: behind the hill. The reason I could tell it was alternating
: the strobes is that when it began to descend behind the hill,
: the one section, the lower section, was behind the hill and
: the upper section wasn't, then the rate of the flashing was
: half as fast. Finally it dropped completely behind the hill.
:
: MC: So at this point it was hidden from your view? How far away
: was it then, when it went behind the hill?
:
: DJ: Probably a couple, maybe three hundred yards.
: MC: So it was off of your friends property?
: DJ: That's right.
: MC: Do you know what property it is? That's not Travis Air Force
: Base is it?
: DJ: No, I think it's either an open field or is part of the
: windmill farm.
: MC: It was only three hundred yards away but you didn't go towards
: it?
: DJ: No, because it would have required going through a field with
: lots of bushes and a few fen
possibly even before we saw the flying object for the first
: time, he thought, and I did to, we saw what looked like a
: skinny creature. Tall, but not real tall, like a child height.
: MC: How far away?
: DJ: It was out in the field and more coming from the north. To
: the right of where it landed. That area was a long fence line
: that went back towards the windmill farm. Maybe a hundred
: feet away. It was real dark and I was having a hell of a time
: telling if I was seeing anything. It wasn't moving much. What
: ever it was it was very still. And we were kind of scared and
: I, then we started paying attention to the flying object. We
: were scared. He was saying, "I see something." I said, "I
: think I see something to back there." Then I heard this weird
: thing talking. It was like the sound of a child. When something
: like that happens and you don't expect, at night in an empty
: field, to hear a child laughing and playing. Sounds of a child
: talking. I thought was that an animal? What is that? It was
: like something walking. I mean what ever the voice was, it
: was moving. But I really couldn't see it. So we both tried to
: kind of look at it. Tried to find it again. He keep claiming
: he could see something and I couldn't see anything at that
: point. It was too dark and too shadowy to really tell. Let's
: put it this way, if that thing hadn't been there I would have
: seriously considered walking down the fence and around the hill
: and walking back to the other side. But whatever it was, I got
: the clear feeling that either they were sending something to
: watch us or warn us away. Whatever it was it kept us very
: effectively from going back behind the hill.
: MC: So then you went back to the house? When you got back what
: time was it?
: DJ: Yes, it was probably about 10:30 pm.
: MC: I guess you probably discussed this at length in his house?
:
: DJ: Yes.
: MC: Did you tell anyone else about this?
: DJ: I told a couple of people I know. A couple of friends.
: MC: Does Terry have animals on the farm?
: DJ: Yes.
: MC: Dogs? Where they with you during the sighting?
: DJ: Yeah, I remember when we first started looking at it, to see if
: there was something in the field, the dogs were barking at
: something.
: MC: Did they approach it?
: DJ: I think one of them did run back there. Like it was going
: after an animal.
: MC: They didn't try to attack this thing you saw walking around?
: DJ: No. They didn't seem to have any interest.
: ***
: ******************************************************************
: -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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--
joeshea@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 11:24:43 GMT
From: David Guttormsen
Subject: Re: Fate of Soviet Mars Probes 1990
In message
>Does anyone remember what happened to the Soviet Mars probes (Phobos 1
>and Phobos 2 as I recall) a few years back. As Phobos 1 neared a Martian
>moon, the last pictures it sent back to earth looked like a SAM missile
>fired f
grasp of the basics of
these concepts themselves and will begin to bring us within the forefront
of the scientific knowledge that will be necessary to achieve the level
of knowledge that we seek. Unfortunately, the basics of this knowledge
are being hindered by the temporary slowing down of very important
projects such as the super conducting super collider, previously slated
for the state of Texas. This will cause the slow down and much later
discovery (publically) of many of the important scientific advances to
come.
Sorry...I got off the subject. Electricity as we call it travels
through the sub-matrix that we call space and is allowed by a distortion
of the Matrix of the Space-Time continuum itself. This continuum can be
distorted at a much larger level and in order for deep space travel to
occur must be and is a reality. The fields which are necessary for
others to visit us, must be of sufficient intensity and variation to
allow distortion of Space-Time and our own electrical fields will be
inconsequential as a minor result. That is why our own electrical
devices "shut off".
-
AL VARGAS WUCA27A@prodigy.com
------------------------------
End of ALTUFO-L Digest - 5 Mar 1995 - Special issue
***************************************************